Today’s episode covers the process I went through to make the move to a new position. I cover my thoughts on counter offers, making “I will leave for a new job" threats, dealing with recruiters and I share some funny stories. Including how HR called me a liar and the time I failed an online personality test.
Thanks for listening! Feel free to reach out at links below
Today’s episode covers the process I went through to make the move to a new position. I cover my thoughts on counter offers, making “I will leave for a new job" threats, dealing with recruiters and I share some funny stories. Including how HR called me a liar and the time I failed an online personality test.
Thanks for listening! Feel free to reach out at links below
Hi I'm Thomas welcome to the parachute advice. My life has taken a lot of twists and turns and on this podcast I will dive into those experiences the goal is to help everyone listening learn from my experiences, and hopefully avoid some of the mistakes I've made welcome to today's episode of the parachute advice podcast your host Thomas I recently covered the topic of planning for potential job loss and reposted last year's episodes and career planning and job search, well today I'm going to walk you through how I recently applied this in my life to land a great new opportunity. First off as I always say this is just my experience and something that's unique to how I've operated but something I think can be helpful for everyone out there. I've noticed that these episodes are fairly popular around the world and that's why I want to share my experiences. First and foremost you're going to hear a theme to this whole episode and that is self respect and demanding the best for yourself, over the last six months or so I advocated for myself at work I had reached a point where my career was becoming stagnant and lacking growth I decided that this was the point at which I needed to decide was I just going to stay and be okay with where I'm at. What was I going to look for the next role in the next challenge in my life don't get me wrong I loved what I was doing I loved where I work and frankly, I work with some great people also the money was good and I built such a solid team that my days were easy
so easy that I that it made my entire new lifestyle easy often times I was able to leave work at 3:00 or 3:30 and go work out and get home at a reasonable amount of time and not have the stress of wondering what was going on at work, I felt such a strong team that when I took days off I didn't have to worry about what was going on but that said I also knew that if I didn't make a change this is where I was likely going to spend the rest of my career and it's not what I want. Like I said I had the situation dialed in I worked in a booming industry. And they had a lot of great perks the benefits were good we had an on-site gem great cafeteria. Free coffee free soda I know it seems dumb but little perks like that can make going into work every day that much better but I wanted to be challenged and I didn't want to get pigeonholed in what I was doing and for the rest of my career just be the guy who did what I was doing. Something I've come to realize through my career is that titles matter well I think it's a dumb concept the reality is. What title you have in a job and what titles you have on your resume will dictate your long-term Career Success what do I mean by this well I was a manager and I need to decide was being a manager for the rest of my career what I want to do or I want to make the step to the next level, the reality is I wanted the hit that next level and set what I like to call a new floor in my career what do I mean by this well the reality is when you hit certain titles in your career you have set a new floor in your career you will likely never have a position below that level, what are these titles you ask well from what I've seen throughout my career you have the classic entry level once its supply chain is going to be an analyst a planner. Something to that effect these are usually people with 13 years experience. Then you might have senior planner senior analyst who's are historically people have three to five years of experience, that's the point at which you can start being more picky about rolls, and you tend to earn a little bit more and you have more opportunities when your entry level we all know you kind of just have to take with Hannah do you to build experience and build a reputation once you get to that level of being a senior fill in the blank, you have a little bit more of an opportunity to grow and be picky in your next career moves then usually come supervisor supervisor is usually specifically around the idea of managing hourly employees don't get this confused with being a manager I've come to learn throughout my career that many employers Street supervisor different than manager, they view supervisors is somebody who manages hourly people usually with clearly defined rules and guidelines. While being a manager you are managing salaried employees or other managers. You have a little more latitude in that job but as a result it's a little more complex and usually comes with a greater salary and a little bit more responsibility and like I said is viewed slightly better than supervisor. Often times it's very hard to make that move into managing people because if you haven't been doing it in your career no one wants to take the risk on a manager being bad at it we've all seen it somebody gets promoted to being a manager and they're just not good at it, after that you usually have the senior manager. While a lot of companies like to tell you and they like to tell their employees that senior managers the same as being a director, the reality is in the Working World they are not viewed the same I'm sorry I know it's a hard truth but that's the reality. You can try to explain it you can try to spin it you may even have the same level of responsibility as a senior manager that a director has but you are not viewed as a director. It sucks but it's just the nature of the Beast after senior manager usually have director and then senior director, this is a point in your career where you have set a very solid floor I've seen it throughout my career, once you get to the point where you're a director of senior director you can be far more picky about what you want to do a lot more opportunities open up obviously earning potential goes up significantly and on top of that, truth be told I don't think I've ever seen a director that I've known in my career be out of work for very long even the worst directors I've worked with or for. Ultimately land new roles why because the belief is once you get the title of director you must be very good at what you do, this is the point at which you become the expert in your area field whether you're a director of finance a director of supply chain a Director of Human Resources whatever it is, most companies view you as now being an expert in that field and as a result they want you and they will pay for that expertise often. Also managing much more complex teams or overseeing entire areas of the organization as a director hence the greater money and greater responsibility. And greater career growth in my case I went from just managing scheduling and planning within a supply chain organization. To becoming a supply chain director for an entire facility yes, that's what I ended up pulling off I can't be more happy I've made the move from being a manager to a director and as a friend of mine as we were having beers discussing this new opportunity said you've now set a new floor in your career. For the rest of your career if you choose to be you will always be a director or a buff so this leads me to my journey and what I learned through this whole process of looking for a new job first off I want to say I was extremely lucky I worked for an excellent manager. Frankly my last manager might have been the best manager I've had my career truth be told I would say we had become actual friends through the course of four years working for. So it made it a lot easier to have some hard conversations about my future within the organization and we have been having these conversations for over a year and I don't know why but for one reason or another it was clear to both him. Asking around and me talking with people that I was not going to move up within the organization candidly, I think the issue was is I was an outsider I was working for a company with a lot of Legacy employees who had come up from the day they started in their career to where they were and I was The Outsider and oftentimes I tended to ruffle feathers because I wanted to make improvements and change and I never accepted the concept of that's just how we've always done it. And I think over the course of time that threatened a lot of people that's just my theory on it either way it was very clear. That I was not going to move up within the organization so at that point it was clear that I had to start looking and I was open with my manager he knew he was okay with it he was disappointed not not for me but for the fact that he was losing me potentially. So I started my job search I was doing this very slowly and selectively. I made it clear to any recruiters I talked to that I was only looking for senior manager or director level roles. It had to be within an organization that I saw a long-term growth potential and a future with and candidly had to have great pain great benefits one major discussion I have my manager very early on when I started this search and again this is not a move I would recommend for everyone you have to know the situation know your manager know if this is even a conversation we should have because I understand that once you have this conversation a bad manager might view you as a threat and you could automatically lose your job, so I'm not sure it's the best move for everyone but it was something that I was willing to do and I felt I had a good enough relationship with my manager to do which I did Alta mately but I wanted to be very upfront with him and tell him a few things. First off. I don't make threats about leaving I never have I never will I don't see value in going to your employer and saying if you don't give me X Y or Z I'm leaving if you're unhappy leave. Otherwise stay and accept the situation don't make threats the next thing I said was if I find a new role and I plan to accept it. I don't entertain counter offers simple as that I told him these were non-negotiables don't waste my time with a counteroffer don't come at me with a counteroffer if the organization and values me enough they will find a way to keep me before we get to the point that a counteroffer is needed and if they don't well then I'm leaving. At the end of the day he understood this and we were on the same page, next was a rule I set for myself I would never just take a role for the sake of leaving I would not short sell myself or force myself into a situation that I was unhappy with I had I have done that in my career and it doesn't end well. I'll be honest I've been treated poorly too many times in my career by either employers or recruiters, what do I mean well from Simply being ghosted to having Promises of but no formal offers pulled from me at the last minute to other crazy things going on I'll tell you this story, I once went as far as canceling a family event to fit in a last-minute meeting with a major Company CEO because and I quote. I was there guy and he just wanted to meet the future head of their supply chain. That was it the offer was done this was a formality he just wanted to meet the person who is going to be fixing things and driving the company forward. After I met with him they hit me with one last surprise before we can send you your offer letter you just need to take this quick online personality test. No big deal so I did to never hear from them again, I pushed and I pushed and I pushed and I asked for a reason and truth be told the only reason I found out what happened was a through my local network of contacts and be, the recruiter at the company being so poor, at managing how they did things that they accidentally replied to my email with comments that they meant to send to somebody else and what did it say he was our candidate, everything went well we wanted to make him the offer but he failed the personality test we felt he didn't have the right personality for the organization. I would later find out with someone within my network who also ended up at that company that not only did she have to do a personality test but then they made her meat. With a corporate psychologist for 2 hours prior to getting a job offer to make sure she was the right fit. To say the least this is a company I would never work for for a multitude of reasons first and foremost how I was treated during the recruiting process and second of all the fact that you would take and prioritize a personality test, over what all of your managers were saying that's just not an organization that I want to work that work for all right, so let's Circle back to where I am now I came across a great opportunity in an unknown company. And when I say unknown unknown to most people in my local area. That was looking for a supply chain director role this was a billion-dollar business owned by a private Equity Firm in the electronic manufacturing space, what intrigued me about it wow first off supply chain director second of all site level responsibility third of all electronic Manufacturing. Why is that intriguing well the truth is if you look at the current state of the economy. And the nature of on Shoring more and more Electronics manufacturing will be moving back to the US simple as that and this is a space that I think will see growth over the next 10 or 15 years so why not get some experience in. Here's where the big catch came in when I first spoke to the recruiter for this company they explained to me the best that I was going to see was a four percent raise. Explain right then and there that would not entice me to leave my current position. Why because actually that would be a net loss in income I would be giving up a great 401K match. As well as part of a great bonus when it was done and over with. A four percent raise to leave would have ultimately meant a 5% cut in overall compensation package so I explained that if they wanted me. I would need an 18% race, why truth be told it was a nice round number it was a number I was looking for so this is where things got off to a bad start to be honest and again like I've said from the beginning you have to advocate for yourself the recruiter asked. Even though they didn't feel like they could hit my salary requirements if I would at least, meet with one of the vp's of their supply chain organization and have a quick conversation so I made it crystal clear I could free up 30 minutes of my time in the morning prior to the start of my day with a hard stop simple as that well things didn't get off to a good start no one called me at the time we had scheduled ultimately I got a text about 20 minutes later explaining that, the VP wasn't able to make the phone call because an internal emergency with a customer come up and he couldn't get on the phone with me completely understandable. But not a good start to be honest especially when truth be told I wasn't sure I wanted to leave and I was pretty confident that we weren't gonna be able to agree on money, but still they apologized and asked me to give them a second chance so again I said I could make 30 minutes the very next day free in the morning with a hard stop I could not keep missing time at work think about this, and this is something I have found very confusing in my job search why wouldn't you prioritize a candidate who puts their current employer above looking for a new job but that's not how it usually works they expect you to accommodate them and screw your current employer, you know take time off in the middle of the day cut out early to take a phone call well I don't work that way. I think the best candidates are the ones who acknowledge that their first priority is their current employer even though they are trying to better themselves that's the kind of employee I want to hire so they agreed to the new 30-minute meeting the next day, how did it go well I thought it went okay do you have opportunity sounded great but again, I was a little concerned about the financial compensation the overall benefits package and a few other things and frankly. I wasn't sure I want to leave the great great situation I was in like I said it might pigeonhole me for the rest of my career but maybe I just Coast to the end and enjoy the easy life, let's be honest that's not who I am though,
so at 7:30 in the morning I had the phone call long story short it went great and within an hour I had a text from the recruiter asking if I could fit in another 30 minute call with his boss that afternoon. It had gone so well that he felt his boss the senior VP needed to speak with me immediately. The eight explain to this position have been opened for many months because the prior person who'd been in it was not a good fit for the organization and they were desperate to get the right person in to build the organization and help make improvements. So I agreed I found 30 minutes my afternoon again I was very clear I could make 30 minutes work with a hard stop I had meetings and other responsibilities to get to. So we did it and how did that go within five minutes of hanging up the recruiter called me and asked if I could do a one-hour Zoom call with the site VP of the plant that I would be the supply chain director for the very next morning they were eager to talk with me. And they want to do is zoom call so I agreed that I could do it in the morning before my day started, so we set it up again explain to the recruiter that they needed to understand I was not going to bend on my requirements for compensation or benefits package or overall package. I needed what I needed in order to make this move and feel good about making this move they had all the information truth be told part of the reason I was being hard about this. Is I was nervous about leaving and not sure I want to give up on a such a good cushy opportunity or situation I was in to have to relearn a whole new company a whole new way of doing things and a whole new industry, listen I tell everyone this starting a new job sucks the first six months every day is like getting punched in the face he'll just just the other day, trying to set up my new work phone and I screwed up and I am now locked out of being able to have email on my phone until I can get ahold of it this would have never happened in my current position why because a I had these things set up and be I had built my network internally within the company so I would have known who to call immediately to help me fix this. So these are the struggles you'll have with changing a job changing a job is very hard and I knew this but I also knew it something I needed to do, the recruiter assured me that there was no worries they felt they could make the compensation package work,
so okay so how did it go well fantastic I had to call it seven in the morning by 8:00 a.m. I was to my current job hanging out when I got a text I could expect an offer by that afternoon, for the dollar amount I asked great but this point I realized things were moving a little fast I hadn't seen the plant I hadn't met anyone in person. I knew very little about the organization other than the the total of two hours of phone conversation so I said we needed to slow things down I need to go on site. Plant tour understand the industry a little more and meet people in person this is very important to me I think you can have a great discussion over the phone but meeting people in person is. And also seen a plant speaks volumes. I took a job once where I never got a plant to her and when I moved in I discovered that the place was frankly a hellhole this was an employer. Who on rainy days we would have to rock-paper-scissors on who was going to go mop out the bathroom after the rain stops that we didn't have to stand in two inches of standing water to go to the bathroom. So this is why I've learned getting a plant tour and seeing the little details is vital. They said yeah no problem let's do it Monday morning first thing great so again this is where I did something that I would not recommend to most, I sat down with my manager and explain to them what was going on and I also reminded him of the key points I would not make threats, this was not a threat in once I had a formal offer if it hit my requirements I was going to accept it and once I had had it and accepted it. I was not going to entertain counter offers I will not and do not accept counter offers simple as that, like I said earlier why do I not accept counter offers well if I wasn't important a good enough to promote me before I had an offer to leave then why would I stay when you can make an offer now, honestly I have read horror stories about how people end up leaving oftentimes on bad terms or they give you the giant counteroffer just so that they can spend time backfilling you and you ultimately end up training your replacement and then one day they just let you go anyways, the truth be told the thing that made you leave or made you want to look to leave, isn't going to change with a counteroffer it's still gonna be there it may not be there for a while but it will come back so at the end of the day if you are so inclined to be looking for a new job you should probably take the offer as long as it fits your criteria. So this is where things got really interesting I got the offer was for what I asked for great I let my manager know I had the offer and would be signing it in two days he immediately rushed to talk to his manager and HR to see what they could do to try to keep me. And I'll be honest I was hoping that they could come up with something just enough to make me okay and not taking the new job because again. The fear and the apprehension and the struggle that I knew I was walking into by leaving my current job and having to learn a whole new row role in a whole new industry was honestly not something I was sure I want to do. And this isn't even tie back to my current lifestyle and all the weight loss the fact that I would have to learn how to do all of those things at a new job think about that. I went from weighing almost 400 pounds to what I am now. Well being at my current employer one who accommodated my diet requirements accommodated my workout schedule even had a gym on site. All of these things were items I had to factor in if I was going to take a new job. Just the hassle of what was I going to do for a new gym how is that going to fit in working out what was the schedule going to be like where they can it be okay with me leaving a little early so I can make sure I got in a long run or hit the weights I don't know so like I said I was hoping that maybe. Just maybe my current employer would come up with something to keep me well they didn't and why well things got really weird at this point again. I wanted to stay just give me something but this is where it went way off the tracks my manager came to me and said I need to see your offer letter. And HR wants a copy of it and excuse my language but I basically said fuck no why did HR need to see the offer letter wasn't asking for a counter offer. I was asking for them to promote me and reward me for all the hard work I had done. So what I had for an offer letter didn't matter he agreed with me and he shared this information with HR he left for the day because I had a family commitment he wasn't going to be available by phone what happened next was even more shocking our senior HR manager called me, not even 15 minutes later and said I need to see the offer letter and you need to scan me a copy otherwise I can't write you a counteroffer and I said listen first off. I'm not asking for a counter offer why because like I've told my manager and I'm going to tell you I don't accept counter offers secondly. My offer letter is confidential as between me and my new employer HR at this point said to me, wow in order to give you a counter offer I said again I don't want to counter offer while in order to try to keep you to stay we need to see what they're offering you. Because you could just be lying and I said oh. So you want me to stay with an organization that thinks I'm a liar HR said no no we don't think you're a liar but we think people lie. It's okay well I'm not sure my offer letter he said well then we have to assume you're lying I said so I am a liar. I know some people like we're not saying you're a liar but people lie if you don't want to share details about the offer letter, simply cover those up and scan it over and I said well then at that point couldn't I just write my own offer letter in Microsoft Word and scan it over to you and black out a bunch of things and make it look like I have a counteroffer and they said yeah but then you'd be lying so we need to see the original with all the details I said oh. So I can't black things out, you need the original counteroffer or you need the original offer to counter it because you think I'm a liar and a charge against it no no we don't think you're a liar we just think people lie oh so you want me to stay with an organization that thinks I'm a liar no no, we don't think you're a liar we just think people lie. Well I said to HR that's not going to happen and this is where things got really shocking HR said well just so you're clear. There's going to be some restructuring coming up and who knows how that's going to play out. But again no pressure do what you need to do think about it over the weekend so what happened I literally hang up the phone at that moment with HR called my new employer, and should I accept the offer scanned over the signed copy, it was set to leave why do I share that story well first off for all of you out there who are either managers are in HR, it is simple things like that that can cause a great employee to leave an organization think about that I was called a liar so, like I said I took the offer and I left the organization am I unhappy yeah I love where I was I love the people I work with am I glad I took the new opportunity absolutely that said I will tell everyone out there understand that when you leave to take a new job it's going to be miserable, I heard somebody say it this way it's like getting punched in the face, everyday I feel like every day when I go into work I take two steps forward and four steps back I know how to do this I know how to run a supply chain but I have to learn the system's the people the computers the data everything is a struggle, but I also know that six months from now it's not going to be a struggle and I'm going to be happy to be there and at the end of the day I advocated for myself, I got the raise I wanted and I got the title I wanted I've set a new floor in my career and one that will ultimately impact my earning potential in my long-term success for the rest of my career open up a ton of New Opportunities it adds new Industries to my experience. And overall just makes me a better more well-rounded candidate so again I share this whole story. Not to tell you how to do things but to just share some examples and understand that. You know if you've listened to my previous three episodes on Career planning job loss and looking for that new job and how to manage that transition. I share all that information from True real world experiences I've been to this multiple times I just realized that in 14 years. I have had eight jobs now yes seven of those years were with the same company moving internally, but the reality is I move jobs to keep fresh and continue to grow and build my experience and I think everyone should do this yeah employers will tell you that job hopping looks bad on your resume but at the end of the day you have to do what's best for you, don't worry about what others think do what's best for you I hope all this information has helped you and I hope my experience in my examples will motivate you and your career move as always these were just my experiences. Things I think can be helpful to everyone thank you for listening please join me again for future episodes. You can contact me at parachute advice podcast at gmail.com again that's all one word parachute advice podcast at gmail.com. You can also follow me on Instagram at parachute advice again thank you for listening and please like And subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Music.